Joe Torre might be available next year.

Maybe we can trade for David Bell and he can repeat the line once uttered by Warren Spahn about Casey Stengel: “I knew him both before and after he was a genius.”

I totally disagree with your recommendation of retaining Trammel for another season. After spending 15+ years playing for ‘Captain Hook’, and I use that name with GREAT affection, I can’t, for the life of me, understand how he learned absolutely nothing about pitcher management. How could he see how Sparky yanked a pitcher when he needed to and not learn to NOT leave a pitcher in when he is being shelled. As for a replacement, just go down to Toledo and see how well Parrish is doing. I know he was here before, but the way he is handling Toledo after the home club has taken all of his front line players is remarkable. Alan Trammel was a great player for the Tigers, and much loved, but that does Not make him a manager. Mike said that he would spend as much at it took to improve the Tigers. He has acquired some good men and now he has to find a manager…Thank you…

I totally disagree with your recommendation of retaining Trammel for another season. After spending 15+ years playing for ‘Captain Hook’, and I use that name with GREAT affection, I can’t, for the life of me, understand how he learned absolutely nothing about pitcher management. How could he see how Sparky yanked a pitcher when he needed to and not learn to NOT leave a pitcher in when he is being shelled. As for a replacement, just go down to Toledo and see how well Parrish is doing. I know he was here before, but the way he is handling Toledo after the home club has taken all of his front line players is remarkable. Alan Trammel was a great player for the Tigers, and much loved, but that does Not make him a manager. Mike said that he would spend as much at it took to improve the Tigers. He has acquired some good men and now he has to find a manager…Thank you…

I totally disagree with your recommendation of retaining Trammel for another season. After spending 15+ years playing for ‘Captain Hook’, and I use that name with GREAT affection, I can’t, for the life of me, understand how he learned absolutely nothing about pitcher management. How could he see how Sparky yanked a pitcher when he needed to and not learn to NOT leave a pitcher in when he is being shelled. As for a replacement, just go down to Toledo and see how well Parrish is doing. I know he was here before, but the way he is handling Toledo after the home club has taken all of his front line players is remarkable. Alan Trammel was a great player for the Tigers, and much loved, but that does Not make him a manager. Mike said that he would spend as much at it took to improve the Tigers. He has acquired some good men and now he has to find a manager…Thank you…

Now Mel, do you really feel that comment warranted being repeated not once but twice?

I think Trammell should get another year. The only way you replace him is if you can get a clear upgrade, which I don’t think will be available.

What about Larry Dierker?

I don’t understand how anyone could say that he’d like to see what Trammell can do with one more year. It’s obvious what he’ll do. He’ll utterly mismanage his bullpen. I’ve never seen a manager with less of a clue. We’re repeatedly left antsy as a pitcher is rushed to get loose while another douses a fire with gasoline. Have you not noticed this?

Also, your point about close games doesn’t make any sense, for a couple of reasons.

First off, you say: “The Tigers are 26-26 in games decided by less then[sic] two runs (through 8/6) so it’s not like he’s “blown” a lot of close games either. It looks like you meant to say “two runs or less” here, since less than two runs means it was a one-run game. The Tigers, by my count, are 13-20 in one-run games, about which it can be safely said that the manager has more sway.

Secondly, the Tigers record in games decided by two runs or less does not, in and of itself, tell you that the manager does a good job. It is not a zero-sum problem. In other words, has the performance of the players in those situations been such that the Tigers should have won about half of those games? How about the performances of the players who maybe SHOULD HAVE been hitting, pitching or running in those situations? There is no way to say, and there is a lot of anecdotal evidence to be considered. Have we been watching the same team all year? Did you see Chris Spurling give up three homers in one inning? Did you watch Jamie Walker crap on the mound while Rodney rushed to get warm?

This last point needs to be considered a little more often. Baseball Prospectus makes this mistake constantly, when they say something like, and I’m making up an example here, “His home EQA is 50 points lower than his road EQA, so it’s not as though his home park is helping him out”. How do you know? If he wasn’t playing in Coors Field, would his home EQA be 100 points lower? We do not know. I hate it when people say baseball isn’t all about numbers because I think it’s just their way of saying that they don’t understand the numbers, but statheads sometimes forget that it is not a dice game. Home and road EQAs aren’t robotically equal until outside factors affect them. The Tigers aren’t automatically a 26-26 team in 2-run games. Maybe with average manager they would be 30-22 or 28-24, I don’t know. Neither do you until some other information is introduced.

“The Tigers aren’t automatically a 26-26 team in 2-run games. Maybe with average manager they would be 30-22 or 28-24, I don’t know. Neither do you until some other information is introduced.”

True enough, Dan. But the reverse is also true. Maybe with some managers, the Tigers are 22-30 in those games. I don’t think that that stat, in and of itself, is a compelling argument to either keep or fire Tram.

But I do agree that baseball isn’t always about numbers, and that’s not because I don’t understand them.

You misunderstand my argument. I didn’t say it was a reason to fire Trammell. I said that the record in two-run games isn’t a reason to NOT fire him. You have to objectively look at the anecdotal evidence, more than anything. If you have been watching this team all year and you don’t think Trammell is a bad manager then I don’t know what to tell you. You and I have a different idea of what makes a decent manager. I don’t think it’s the Tigers’ biggest problem by any means, and I’m not as worried about it as I am by about a half dozen other things, but any suggestion that Trammell doesn’t suck as a manager is a little baffling.

The whole reason I responded was because I think numbers were being used to prop up an argument Brian was setting out to make anyway. It’s not good analysis, and the numebrs serve to only blur the issue.

You make some great points Dan. I am guilty of basically looking for things that will only back up my arguement instead of looking for more objective evidence.

I’m curious as to why you think Tram is such a bad manager. I know use of the pen has been arguement, but what exactly has he done (or not done) to earn the “suck as a manager” title.

Well the decision to take Higgenson North out of spring training sealed the deal for me. You remeber trammell’s “pity party” comments in reference to Thames? Trammell was heaven on that one episode of magnum P.I. But pure horrorshow in the dugout with a lineup card.

I think the Higginson decision was more wishful thinking (we STILL need a good left handed bat) then a poor decision. And Thames, while he’s torn up AAA, hadn’t done much in his time with the Tigers.

Please. Thames was never given an extended chance. the fact that he makes most of his outs with strikeouts means nothing. So does Adam Dunn, Jim Thome etc. Thames takes his walks. also. gvien the chance to play everyday Thames has produced like a maniac! He was told he was having a pity party by his manager after having a torid spring. he went back down and tore it up.. was called up hit a grand slam then was sat on the bench to be used as a pinch hitter and spot starter. Please. I agree with you on one point. Higgenson is indeed left handed. A left handed ogre that has haunted this line-up and our payroll for far too many years! a horrid bat is not justified simply because it swings from the left side!

Please. Thames was never given an extended chance. the fact that he makes most of his outs with strikeouts means nothing. So does Adam Dunn, Jim Thome etc. Thames takes his walks. also. gvien the chance to play everyday Thames has produced like a maniac! He was told he was having a pity party by his manager after having a torid spring. he went back down and tore it up.. was called up hit a grand slam then was sat on the bench to be used as a pinch hitter and spot starter. Please. I agree with you on one point. Higgenson is indeed left handed. A left handed ogre that has haunted this line-up and our payroll for far too many years! a horrid bat is not justified simply because it swings from the left side!